Original ask:

Hello illustrious list,

Hope everyone is safe.

We are developing an electromechanical machine that cooks a special batter in a special way, and regulatory is about to be a concern. We aren't ready to formally engage with the NSF, but we are hoping to speak to a third party that can guide us, critique our design, and tell us more about timelines. If it helps, I believe we need to adhere to NSF-2, NSF/ANSI-4, and NSF/ANSI 51.

Does anyone know of a third party food regulatory agency that does consulting?

Brogan

Brogan's Update:

High Level Summary

• The team that was assigned to us have been a pleasure to work with. NSF is a self-certifying regulatory body, so it can feel like a racket. Unlike UL or CE, you don't need NSF. McDonalds only -prefers- NSF equipment.
• The process will cost us around $8-$10k up front, $3k annual, and 90 days. Our product is 15in x 7in x 17in, reaches 400F, mostly metal, and is subject to NSF-4.
• Every criterion is aimed at limiting bacteria growth. The big 3 they look at are radii, fasteners, and seams. Different zones (food zone, splash zone, etc) have different requirements. Any area above 180F is exempt from everything.
• If possible, design it to be taken apart aka serviceable. The logic: if you can take it a part, you can thoroughly clean it. This saved us a lot of redesign.
• Read the standards before designing, but don't limit your design by them. It's a self-cert body- design negotiation are on the table.

Low Level Summary

• Flow and Fees
• Preliminary meeting- what needs to be fixed
• Standard fee: $1100
• Some continued support 15-30 days after interview ("is this button okay?", etc)
• Extended preliminary fee: ??
• Review
• Design review either remote or in person
• Did you fix what we said you needed to?
• Any surprises?
• ~$6800 for a generic product that needs to adhere to NSF-4 (our product)
• Includes a location audit (where does the machine exist?)
• Includes a mark review (where and how you use the mark)
• Duration average 90 days
• Annual
• Location audit - $1275
• Listing- $1750
• Your machine/company will be listed on their website
• Design Notes
• All comes down to making sure bacteria doesn't have a nice place to grow
• Big 3 are radii, seams, and fasteners
• If your design is obviously take apartable/serviceable, The rules becomes significantly less strict.
• Different zones have different restrictions, but there are a lot of exceptions- can't really predict what the zones are without experience
• Hot zones (>180F) are exempt from the big 3
• For final cert simple screenshots are fine. Simple drawings okay too. Photos from physical important.
• If you change the design post cert, not a big deal at all. Just show them that the changes aren't a big deal, submit new screenshots/drawings
• One big challenge is material. If you are using a unique material that isn't in their database then there is some extra steps to figure it out, costs $400-$2000.
• A lot of materials have an NSF certified formula (silicone, plastics, etc)
• No electrical requirements and no "safety" requirements ie they don't care if your motor can pinch somebody
• Stick to SUS and Al and you'll be okay. Powder coating is sketchy due to degradation. Anno okay.
• Other Notes
• Not very stringent compared to other regulatory bodies
• It's a self-cert company, so it's of course a little interesting. Don't hate the player hate the game.
• Not having an NSF cert isn't a deal breaker

List wide responses:

Cory Bloome

We had good luck with Lee Ould at Safety Engineering Laboratory.  We used him for commercial food processing equipment.  He's not cheap but he knows his stuff.  

https://seldirect.com/ 

Dave Lyons

I’ll second Cory on that. I just finished a year long regulatory program with SEL for CSA, FCC and laser safety (not NSF). He is thorough and diligent. 

Mason Curry

I worked on a food service product and we had good luck working directly with the NSF early on.  She walked us thru some guidelines and then did a review of a prototype to call out things that would not pass when we got to the certification step.  She could not suggest solutions but was very helpful to discuss what they would be looking for.  (Her role has changed since we worked with her, so not sure if she’d be doing the same thing now, but she could connect you with someone who does.) 

Kaylyn Brunskole
Technical Manager, Product Cert - Food Equipment